Curse

Shayne Hawke · Apr 04, 2010, 04:05 PM // 16:05

From what I have seen and heard, all of those who have high ranks in the Gladiator title have TA to thank. However, TA is gone now, and it's not coming back. Achievement in the Gladiator title, at least in the higher ranks, is extremely time consuming now, and the way there is wrought with failed runs and failures of teams. Additionally, an issue of players having little desire to play within certain team compositions and therefore leaving after the first match should try to be addressed.

Points Every Match

Very simple, every single match that you win awards you one point. At the moment, the only teams that are worth playing on are those teams that have a decent shot of getting five consecutive victories. It's even better if you can count on your team getting to ten, fifteen, or even further, but those teams are likely few and far between, syncing aside. In order to encourage players to stick with the teams that they have, I'd like to see one point given out per match to winners, so that winning and trying is always a good idea.

Remove Limit on Point Gain

Currently, at 25 wins, you gain nine points because you're not allowed to get more than four points for consecutives. Remove that limit so that the point values on consecutives can increase at the 25 win mark. What I am not suggesting here is that runs past 25 wins are to be allowed. Do not get confused.

Re-Scaling of Title

Of course, getting one point per victory is going to allow players to get a great deal more points than they currently get. So, I'm suggesting that all levels of the Gladiator title be multiplied by ten, and all current points that players currently have be multiplied by ten. On the previous adjustment of the Gladiator title, the tiers were multiplied by five and point values by six, but I am choosing not to raise the points that players have by more than the ranks here because gaining points at the lower levels will be extremely easy in comparison to before.

This means that the first few ranks of the title would become 1000 points for Gladiator (1), 2000 points for Fierce Gladiator (2), 4000 points for Mighty Gladiator (3), and so on. Also, a player who currently has something like 6550 points right now would have 65500 points after the change. The points that players have post-update is effectively the same, but it's necessary to do this in order to ensure that real title progression will not be made without getting into a team or two that can get some consecutive runs together.

Increasing Points for Consecutives

The benefits of three or four points on later consecutives are weak compared to the amount of points you can just get for winning, without streaks. It is also necessary to increase how many points are given out for consecutive wins in order to keep title progression speed as good as it is now, and it would probably be a good bonus to lucky teams to have a scaling distribution of points. So, the point bonus for consecutives needs to be boosted. The proposed change is as follows:

5 Consecutives - 5 bonus points
10 Consecutives - 15 bonus points
15 Consecutives - 35 bonus points
20 Consecutives - 75 bonus points
25 Consecutives - 155 bonus points
70 bonus points to be rewarded upon reaching 25 consecutives, and the team is ejected from the arena.

The maximum achievable points per run is currently 19 after 25 rounds of play. With the proposed change, you reach 14 points at nine rounds, 30 points at ten rounds, and a full 380 points for getting through 25 consecutive wins. The amount of points you gain over the old system ranges from ten times at the low end to twenty times at the high end (the first four rounds not counted, because I don't divide by zero). Effectively, you will be gaining somewhere between the same to double the amount of points over time than you normally do now.

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Self-concerns

My biggest incentive for a change to the Gladiator title is remove any kind of mentality that trying to put forth any effort to win is pointless under XYZ condition. The way I see to do this is to reward players for each and every win they make in the arena. However, I don't really think that this would necessarily encourage the players to still stick with those teams after they win their first match, which I feel would be absolutely ideal.

FoxBat · Apr 04, 2010, 04:08 PM // 16:08

I don't know if the numbers are right, but I approve of the idea. When a competitive arena (see also codex, TA) makes you feel bad despite winning 80%+ of your games, something is wrong.

With this change I'd also be reducing max consecuitives to 20 or 15, to cut down on new teams being farmed by those lucky well-balanced team configurations.

Dre · Apr 04, 2010, 05:06 PM // 17:06

I like the idea, my only concern is that we're going to get RR-day again (even though the bonus points make it worthwhile to go for multiple wins)

Gift3d · Apr 04, 2010, 05:09 PM // 17:09

Hey look, an idea worth hearing. I agree with you 100% on the reworking of the glad title, and this sounds extremely promising. Currently players aren't rewarded for just winning, rather winning consistently. When you pop into a team that you know you won't be getting any real consecutives with, it's kind of discouraging which just makes RA frustrating and boring sometimes. Just as you explained it adds an incentive to actually try every match, instead of just saying screw it when you get a crappy looking team. I'll admit i don't try nearly as much to win when i don't have a monk on my team, because really there is no point other than a small chance of getting a couple hundred faction before i dip and try again. I know it's like that with a lot of other players as well.

Can't say anything about the numbers, because you and i both know if something similar to this were to be implemented ANet would add their own numbers to accommodate for the actual changes being made. But the concept works, is understandable, and damn i hope it happens.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dre

I like the idea, my only concern is that we're going to get RR-day again (even though the bonus points make it worthwhile to go for multiple wins)

Is there RR day when the zquest is Random Arenas? Nope. In the scale of things how the OP explained, 3,000 faction is worth a lot more than 1 measly glad point. There's no way that would happen, not a snowball's chance in hell. Think about it.

Jarge · Apr 04, 2010, 05:53 PM // 17:53

/signed for the idea concept of reworking the glad title.
/unsigned in the actual numbers.

Zahr Dalsk · Apr 04, 2010, 06:04 PM // 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dre

I like the idea, my only concern is that we're going to get RR-day again (even though the bonus points make it worthwhile to go for multiple wins)

Hero Battles had a system of matching players by skill. So RR people would stay low down, while actual players would rise up and be faced against other serious players.

Random Arena has no such thing, which means the serious players will just rip through the RR teams anyways. HB had no consecutive wins reward, meaning that it was faster to resign even if you could have stayed in low levels; fighting while you were red was slowing down your faction gain.

Since RA does award consecutive wins, this means that winning every battle does in fact reward you more.

tl;dr RR would not be problem

RotteN · Apr 04, 2010, 06:12 PM // 18:12

I'd like to see the numbers reworked to go for a more linear link between the new and the old title.

The current point award system (and the amount of points you win in total)
5 wins: 1
10 wins: 3
15 wins: 6
20 wins: 10
25 wins: 19

Basically, I will follow your idea of simply multiplying the titletrack by 10.
This should (roughly) give:
5 wins: 10
10 wins: 30
15 wins: 60
20 wins: 100
25 wins: 190

This boils down to:
win 1 to 5: 1 point
5 consecutive wins: 5 bonus points

win 6 to 10: 2 points
10 consecutive wins: 10 bonus points

win 11 to 15: 2 points
15 consecutive wins: 20 bonus points

win 16 to 20: 3 points
20 consecutive wins: 40 bonus points

win 21 to 25: 3 points
25 consecutive wins: 60 bonus points

Points margins were adjusted slightly to make more sense.

Compairing the old system to the new:
5 wins: 1 point vs 10 points
10 wins: 3 points vs 30 points
15 wins: 6 points vs 60 points
20 wins: 10 points vs 115 points
25 wins: 19 points vs 190 points

Only discrepancy (to make the distribution a bit nicer) is at 20 wins, but I doubt anyone will mind people with 20 wins to get a fraction of extra points a bit earlier (they'll most likely hit 25 anyway, and if not, yay for the extra points).

Teams still exit the arena after 25 consecutive wins. No "extra" bonus is involved in hitting this "end zone", since you get 60 bonus points for hitting 25 wins already.

Oath · Apr 04, 2010, 06:28 PM // 18:28

The Gladiator title would in return lose any of its hardly remaining prestige should any sort of rescaling of this type occur. I totally disagree with the numbers you've suggested; even double the current points would be overkill to begin with.

PvP ranks aren't meant to be maxed (HA aside). What's more, you're making whatever points the higher-ranked players have obsolete by letting new players rush up to their ranks in a matter of weeks.

/unsigned, even if you adjust the points

Shayne Hawke · Apr 04, 2010, 06:29 PM // 18:29

The reason why the scaling of points is no longer linear is due to that getting a point for every win. Consider this: every time you win a game now, you're not getting a point, and you're not getting a fraction of a point. With the new system, you would be getting a point, but it's effectively a fraction of a point with the title point boundaries being scaled upward. Those fractions will quickly add up to "points" that you never would have had under the old system. Players at the lower end won't be gaining points ten times as fast, but more like twenty or so times as fast, since they'll be getting those extra points for the teams that can win once or twice but can't pull a streak.

With that being the case, I wanted to make the benefits on the high end significantly larger so that there would actually be a noticeable benefit for rolling a team that could make it all the way. Otherwise, these rarely occuring teams wouldn't really be benefited that much more than players who just spent a lot of time in the arena grinding out single wins.

I'm just so glad to see some support for this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingkong2006

The Gladiator title would in return lose any of its hardly remaining prestige should any sort of rescaling of this type occur. I totally disagree with the numbers you've suggested; even double the current points would be overkill to begin with.

If you've got a way to reward players for sticking with a team that can win but can't pull streaks and doesn't lead to awarding points and an adjustment of the title track, I'd like to hear it.

Quote:

PvP ranks aren't meant to be maxed (HA aside).

I doubt you would even say "HA aside" if nobody had ever maxed it. What's going to happen when someone maxes Gamer this Halloween? Add another exception?

Besides, the goal of this is not to make title gain easier specifically so that the title can be maxed (though I would like to have an easier time finishing up the last half of my progress between Glad ranks two and three). It's to make players more willing to stick with the teams that they are forced to play with in the arena, and to encourage putting some effort forward in every match.

Quote:

What's more, you're making whatever points the higher-ranked players have obsolete by letting new players rush up to their ranks in a matter of weeks.

Under this system, I predict that players will earn respective ranks maybe two to four times faster than before. I don't think that significantly high ranks of Gladiator title were achieved under one year's or a few month's time. They'll be easier to achieve now of course, but that's less from the increase in points and more from a decreased sense of frustration with being able to earn points for each win rather than after a certain number of wins.

HellScreamS · Apr 04, 2010, 07:49 PM // 19:49

I'd say this might be a valuable idea. /signed

drkn · Apr 04, 2010, 08:05 PM // 20:05

/signed totally for the general idea.

however, the gain of 380 points after 25 wins ain't that much, considering it's still a random arena. even though the points needed should be multiplied, x10 is a bit too much imho - x5 should be fine.

Thrilla Killa · Apr 04, 2010, 08:08 PM // 20:08

All this would do is encourage people to sync to get easy points. I had 2 25 win streaks with total random teams in 1 day. With your "point system", i would of moved up an entire glad rank by getting 380 points. This would ruin RA even more. New players would get destroyed even more than they do now, and all the players who fail sync will resign/leave. Now, im not against re-scaling entirely, maybe just doubling the points and leaving the system the way it is. But what your suggesting is just awful. /notsigned

jonnieboi05 · Apr 04, 2010, 08:29 PM // 20:29

TA was a great way for people to farm lesser experienced PvE'ers and I will admit that... But ever since TA got removed I've only really went form getting 65-70 points a day to about 40-45 points a day. It's almost a 50% drops, dure, but I'm not too concerned about that. I get at least 3-4 25 conseqs a day pretty damn easily tbh.

Gladiator is honestly one of the easiest PvP titles earned imo. If you're a damn good Monk then you can make magic happen and pull in those 19 glads a run pretty easily.

So.... Your proposed idea gets a "nosankyuu" from me. Sorry.

Warvic · Apr 04, 2010, 08:48 PM // 20:48

I'm mostly playing RA when I do GW. And I always enjoy it. The glad rank is a funny bonus ofcourse. So changing a title because you can't farm it as fast is just lame!

The only problem I have is people who leave early. Is this logical? yes! Why? Because you won't get far without a nice team (monk!!). And it's anoying. Especially for casual gamer's and non-monks).

How does your idea solve this? It doesn't.. Because your idea of Increasing Points for Consecutives wins encourages the same thing! A good team is needed to get those consecutives! So they will still leave and try to join an better team!

So it would be better to completely remove the consecutive win thing. I really like the idea of awarding 1 point a win.

How to get rid of leavers? What about giving a 30 second pvp dishonorable status when you leave? Yeh! In those 30 secs you could have won or lost the battle..
So people will mostly just stay and finish the battle.

Now we still have the people who leave after one or more win. And I don't know how to solve this....

Lithril Ashwalker · Apr 04, 2010, 10:20 PM // 22:20

/signed PvP in general for GW needs to be updated

End · Apr 04, 2010, 10:47 PM // 22:47

I'm all with ya...Ofc some serious thought would need to go into the exact point values but I think your on the right track...

Red resign shouldn't be an issue because of the incentive to get consecutive wins...

It would easily make up for the loss of TA

and...I might bother if I didn't have to worry about getting 5 consec wins...cause atm the rewards just don't come fast enough to make me interested...but if they came faster I would more inclined even if it meant a slower overall progression...like you multiplied the amount needed for titles by 2000...so long as I see actually progress I'm more likely to do it :\

Eragon Selene · Apr 04, 2010, 10:53 PM // 22:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonnieBoi05

TA was a great way for people to farm lesser experienced PvE'ers and I will admit that... But ever since TA got removed I've only really went form getting 65-70 points a day to about 40-45 points a day. It's almost a 50% drops, dure, but I'm not too concerned about that. I get at least 3-4 25 conseqs a day pretty damn easily tbh.

Gladiator is honestly one of the easiest PvP titles earned imo. If you're a damn good Monk then you can make magic happen and pull in those 19 glads a run pretty easily.

So.... Your proposed idea gets a "nosankyuu" from me. Sorry.

if your so leet......post a SS of your maxed out Glad title.

The glad title is broke, needs fixed, awsome idea.................signed

I Am Not Ok · Apr 04, 2010, 11:08 PM // 23:08

/notsigned

some of my friends worked rly hard to get high glad title(g8-g10) and i consider them rly good players, and if u let it be just like HA u will bring lots more sycers and g-rank will lose it prestige fast

im g6 and i play RA few hours a days while waiting for GvG, and i think this title isnt ment to be maxed, like HA and flashing fancy emote, but to be prestige like champ title(which nowadays is losing it value cos of massive c-range sycing )

Shayne Hawke · Apr 04, 2010, 11:18 PM // 23:18

I don't know how you guys are finding prestige in a title whose growth is now the slowest it has probably ever been.

End · Apr 04, 2010, 11:38 PM // 23:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

I don't know how you guys are finding prestige in a title whose growth is now the slowest it has probably ever been.

I think that's why they find prestige in it...